以下是引用camby在2009-1-6 23:51:00的发言:1.以色列建国前的暴力行为主要是针对英国人,而非巴勒斯坦人。因为英国的“白皮书”改变了贝尔福宣言,不再允许犹太人移居巴勒斯坦。
2.以色列建国前,巴勒斯坦地区阿拉伯人的比例是78%左右,而非99%。
3.以色列建国的第二天,阿拉伯联军就主动攻击以色列,正是在战争过程中,以色列取得了远超过分配的领土,
而非你想象的“chased many Palestenians out and killed many others”,
事实上,这是一个双向的驱逐和杀戮过程,
而且阿拉伯联盟挑起了战争,
战争的结果是以色列胜利了,如果以色列失败,那被chase和kill的就是犹太人了。
战争开始时,阿拉伯联军的实力远远超过新生的以色列,这并不是什么秘密。
我非常反对像井盖儿那种不懂历史,狂热亲以的人,但我并不认为你在这方面的知识比他好多少。
至多你们偏执的方向不同。
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-1-6 23:54:33编辑过]
1. "The Zionists in Palestine (called the Yishuv) established self-defense organizations like the Haganah and the (more radical) Irgun. The latter carried out reprisal attacks on Arabs from 1936 on" ref. http://www.israel-palestina.info/arab-israeli_conflict.html
It is true that they also targeted British troups too.
2. 78% in 1947 (after factoring out the zionist immigration from Eastern Europe (mainly Russia) that started in 1905 where the Arabs were the vast majority i.e. in the 90% - I know I kind of exagerated when I said 99% but the point is to mention a vast majority.
3. That makes quite some sense to attack a group of people who are first outsiders and then declare your own land as their nation EXCUSIVELY (Jewish nation). I agree that attacking was not such a wise idea anyway because they let the epidemy grow beyond an uncontrollable point! The Arabs lost mainly because they were not organized but also outnumbered in terms of troops and weapons (Israeli were backed by Westerners); the Arab defeat was deserved! The loss of this war caused the massive expulsions of many Arabs from their houses and farms; and whoever resited got attacked by zionist groups as I mentioned in 1. For instance Dar Yassin massacre ...etc. I can list many others. If the Iraeli has lost the war, it would have been disastral for them ... but then they're the aggressors. Imagine that the British has decided to give a Chinese province to the Jews as a reperation ... I wonder how we would have reacted?
我非常反对像井盖儿那种不懂历史,狂热亲以的人,但我并不认为你在这方面的知识比他好多少。
至多你们偏执的方向不同。
I do not agree with the comparison you'd made: it is true that I got emotional at some point and claimed numbers without specifying the right context (for instance the 99% which should have been 90% in the context that I added in 2.) ... also the 150 years that I have not fully explained but willing to put more explanation in the future (the discrepancy emanates essentially from the difference betweeen scientific/archelogical studies (~150) and biblical/religious studies (~600)). My lack of preciseness is as dramatic as yours :-) But I think we pretty much get the big lines of history right.