https://huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=3101986&fid=398&page=16

<因为每个人从根本上来说都是三位一体的！>

据我所知，“三位一体Trinity ”一词在圣经中并没有明确提及。

以下是我根据斯多葛哲学的推测。

圣父指的是上帝God——宇宙/自然，涵盖万事万物，其中都拥有上帝的灵Spirit，无论是活着的还是其他什么，都是上帝的一部分。

正如万物，包括人类Son、动物、树木、花朵，都与上帝的灵融为一体Trinity，上帝的灵以生物学和隐含的方式提供/遵循宇宙普遍规律unversal law。

仅代表我个人观点。

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Q

In Stoicism, the concept of a "universal law" or "divine law" refers to the fundamental principles that govern the universe and human life, often referred to as the Logos or Nature. This law dictates that the universe operates according to a rational, ordered system, and that humans, as rational beings, should live in accordance with it. 

Here''''''''s a more detailed explanation:

1. The Cosmic Law:

• Stoics believed the universe was governed by a universal, rational principle (Logos or Nature) that dictates all things. 
• This law is seen as both a physical law shaping the cosmos and a moral law guiding human actions. 
• The universe is seen as a unified system, with humans as part of this larger whole.

2. Human Reason and the Universal Law:

• Stoics emphasized the importance of reason in humans, which allows them to understand and align with the universal law. 
• Living in accordance with nature means living a virtuous life, characterized by wisdom, justice, courage, and temperance. 
• By developing their reason and acting in accordance with the universal law, individuals can achieve inner peace and tranquility (eudaimonia).

3. Key Stoic Concepts Related to Universal Law:

Logos/Nature:

• The term for the universal, rational principle that governs the universe. 

Cosmopolis:

• The Stoic idea of a universal city, where all rational beings are citizens and share a common bond through their shared reason.

Virtue:

The ability to live in accordance with the universal law, which leads to eudaimonia. 

Natural Law:

The Stoic understanding of a universal moral law accessible to all rational beings. 

4. Stoic Influence:

• Stoic thought has significantly influenced the development of natural law, human rights, and international law.
• Their emphasis on reason and universal principles has had a lasting impact on ethical and political thought. 

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Q

In Stoicism, the concept of God is interwoven with the idea of a universal law governing the cosmos. The Stoic God is not a transcendent deity, but rather is identified with Nature or the Logos, the rational principle that orders the universe. This "God" is immanent, meaning it is present within and animating the universe, rather than separate from it. The universal law is seen as the expression of this divine principle, shaping the natural order and providing a framework for living virtuously.

Here's a more detailed look at the relationship between Stoicism, God, and the universal law:

Stoic God as Nature/Logos:

Stoics believed in a divine presence within the universe, not as a separate, personal God, but as the rational, active principle that governs nature. This divine principle is sometimes referred to as the Logos, or Nature (Phusis), representing the underlying order and purpose of the cosmos.

Universal Law:

The universal law, often referred to as the law of nature or the law of the Logos, is the framework that governs all things in the universe. It's the principle that ensures the orderly functioning of nature and is seen as a divine law.

Living in Accordance with Nature:

Stoics believed that true happiness and well-being came from living in accordance with nature, both the external nature of the universe and one's own internal nature. By understanding and aligning oneself with the universal law, one could achieve a state of inner peace and harmony.

The Importance of Reason:

Stoics emphasized the role of reason in understanding and applying the universal law. They believed that humans possess a rational faculty that allows them to comprehend the principles of nature and live virtuously.

Immanence vs. Transcendence:

Unlike some religions that posit a transcendent God separate from the world, Stoics believed that the divine was immanent, present within and animating the universe. This idea of God being part of nature, rather than separate from it, is a key aspect of Stoic theology.

Virtue and the Divine:

Stoics believed that cultivating virtue (wisdom, justice, courage, and temperance) was essential for aligning oneself with the divine and living in accordance with the universal law. By pursuing virtue, individuals could become more attuned to the natural order and live a fulfilling life.

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Q

The concept of the Trinity, as it is understood in Christian theology, is not explicitly stated in the Old Testament. However, some scholars and theologians argue that certain passages in the Old Testament can be interpreted as hinting at or foreshadowing the triune nature of God. These interpretations often focus on passages where God''s word, spirit, or wisdom are mentioned, or where God is portrayed as having a plurality of persons. 

Here''s a more detailed look at the different perspectives:

Arguments for a Trinity in the Old Testament:

Plurality of God:

• Some passages in the Old Testament, particularly in Genesis, use the first-person plural form ("Let us make...") when referring to God''s creation decisions. This has been interpreted by some as suggesting a plurality within the divine nature. 

God''s Word, Spirit, and Wisdom:

The Old Testament often speaks of God''s word (Psalm 33:6), His spirit (Isaiah 61:1), and wisdom (Proverbs 9:1) as distinct entities or aspects of God. Some scholars see these as references to the distinct persons of the Trinity (Son, Holy Spirit, and Wisdom). 

Theophany:

The appearance of the three men to Abraham in Genesis 18 has been interpreted by some as an appearance of the Trinity. 

Angel of the Lord:

Some have identified the "angel of the Lord" in various Old Testament passages with the pre-incarnate Son of God. 

Arguments against a Trinity in the Old Testament:

Lack of Explicit Doctrine:

• The Old Testament clearly emphasizes the oneness of God (Deuteronomy 6:4) and does not explicitly state the doctrine of the Trinity. 

New Testament Revelation:

Most Trinitarian Christians believe that the doctrine of the Trinity was fully revealed in the New Testament. 

Historical Context:

The Old Testament was written in a time before the explicit development of the Trinitarian doctrine. 

In summary: While some scholars and theologians find hints of the Trinity in the Old Testament, the doctrine itself is not explicitly stated. The New Testament is generally considered the primary source for the doctrine of the Trinity. 

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

birdsofparadise 发表于 2025-04-22 08:54

不是，我不相信人格化的上帝，我理解的上帝就像一种控制世界的power,就像我们中国人说的举头三尺有神明

天！

EvenOdd 发表于 2025-04-22 09:10

天！

Q https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/天

自然天/非個人上帝(impersonal God)

春秋战國之時，思想進步，人文理性精神勃發，季梁曰：「夫民，神之主也，是以聖王先成民，而後致力於神。」神為人創，民為神主，則上古神秘觀念漸消，「皇天上帝」之概念漸由自然之「天」取代，天為道德民意之化身，這構成了後世中國文化信仰的一個基礎，而「敬天祭祖」是中國文化中最基本的信仰要素。

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圣父圣子圣灵是三一真神，在圣经里面明明白白的启示了，这一位神也是独一的真神。信的人有圣灵，就能相信这个奥秘

LizzyL 发表于 2025-04-22 10:04

< the Holy Spirit, as part of the Christian Trinity, is available to all people, regardless of their religious affiliation or belief system.>

Q

The statement "holy spirit is for all souls" generally refers to the belief that the Holy Spirit, as part of the Christian Trinity, is available to all people, regardless of their religious affiliation or belief system. It''''s understood that the Holy Spirit can guide, comfort, and inspire individuals, offering spiritual presence and support in their lives. 

Here''''s a more detailed explanation:

The Holy Spirit''''s Role:

The Holy Spirit is often understood as the third person of the Christian Trinity, alongside God the Father and God the Son (Jesus Christ). 

Availability to All:

In a broad sense, the belief is that the Holy Spirit''''s presence and influence are accessible to everyone, not just those who identify as Christian or religious. 

Guidance and Comfort:

The Holy Spirit is seen as a source of guidance, comfort, and inspiration for individuals seeking spiritual direction and solace. 

No Required Belief System:

The idea that the Holy Spirit is for all souls doesn''''t necessarily require a specific religious affiliation or belief system. It''''s a belief that spiritual presence and guidance can be experienced by anyone. 

Diversity of Interpretation:

Different Christian denominations and theological perspectives may have varying interpretations of the Holy Spirit and its role in salvation and spiritual life. 

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LizzyL 发表于 2025-04-22 10:52

有多少基督徒是真的去仔细查考圣经了的呢？有多少又是真的信呢？我想很多时候基督徒给人传的福音都是错的，见证也是不对的，就跟这个版上有人讽刺的一样，都是什么病得医治啊，发财啦，成功啦。也难怪大家耻笑和不信

那么为什么圣灵不帮助他们每个人做正确的事呢？

https://huaren.us/showtopic.html?topicid=3101986&fid=398

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< the Holy Spirit, as part of the Christian Trinity, is available to all people, regardless of their religious affiliation or belief system.>

我认为存在着上帝，也存在着上帝的精神。上帝的精神存在于万物和每个人之中，无论信徒与否。

或许，一个为上述目的而设计的宗教是一件好事。（因此平衡/比较许多其他传统宗教！）

教会聚会来庆祝上述目的也是一件值得推广的好事。（或许这个世界只是严重缺乏这种为了社区健康共同利益的经济活动！尤其是帮助有需要的人。）

我的看法。

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EvenOdd 发表于 2025-04-22 11:43
回复 23楼 EvenOdd 的帖子

< the Holy Spirit, as part of the Christian Trinity, is available to all people, regardless of their religious affiliation or belief system.>

我认为存在着上帝，也存在着上帝的精神。上帝的精神存在于万物和每个人之中，无论信徒与否。

或许，一个为上述目的而设计的宗教是一件好事。（因此平衡/比较许多其他传统宗教！）

教会聚会来庆祝上述目的也是一件值得推广的好事。（或许这个世界只是严重缺乏这种为了社区健康共同利益的经济活动！尤其是帮助有需要的人。）

我的看法。

？

<教会聚会来庆祝上述目的也是一件值得推广的好事。（或许这个世界只是严重缺乏这种为了社区健康共同利益的经济活动！尤其是帮助有需要的人。）>

Q

宗教为个人和社区带来诸多益处，包括归属感、目标感和意义感，以及道德指引和社会支持。这些益处可以对身心健康产生积极影响，促进积极的社会行为，并鼓励公民参与。

以下是宗教潜在益处的更详细分析：

1. 社群与归属感：

社会联系：

宗教通常提供强烈的社群感和归属感，为个人提供一个支持网络和共同价值观。

共同身份认同：

宗教团体可以培养认同感和目标感，帮助个人找到生活中的意义和联系。

社会支持：

宗教社群可以提供情感支持和鼓励，尤其是在充满挑战的时期。

2. 目标与意义：

道德框架：

宗教通常提供道德原则和价值观的框架，指导个人做出符合伦理的决策，过上有意义的生活。

精神指引：

许多宗教提供精神指引和教诲，帮助个人更深入地了解自己和周围的世界。

希望与乐观：

宗教信仰能够提供希望和乐观的源泉，即使在逆境中也能带来来世或超越现实的承诺。

3. 身心健康：

减轻压力：

冥想、祈祷和社区参与等宗教活动有助于减轻压力，改善心理健康。

改善应对机制：

宗教可以为个人提供应对困境（例如悲伤、失落和疾病）的工具和资源。

积极的健康行为：

一些研究表明，有宗教信仰的人可能更有可能采取积极的健康行为，例如戒烟和健康饮食。

4. 社会行为和公民参与：

减少犯罪和违法行为：

一些研究表明，积极参与宗教社区活动的人可能不太可能参与犯罪或违法行为。

提升公民参与度：

宗教组织通常鼓励公民参与和社会行动，促进责任感和对社会福祉的关怀。

社区发展：

宗教机构在社区发展中发挥着至关重要的作用，为有需要的个人和家庭提供资源和支持。

5. 其他潜在益处：

音乐与仪式：

许多宗教都融入了音乐和仪式，这可以提供审美和精神上的充实。

学习与教育：

宗教机构在教育和学习方面发挥着重要作用，提供正规和非正规的教育机会。

经济福祉：

一些研究表明，宗教参与可能与经济福祉的提升相关，这可能是由于更紧密的社会联系和社区支持等因素造成的。

UQ

回复 38楼 EvenOdd 的帖子

我认为救世军在世俗化方面比较接近上述目标。

因为实际上人们无法完全避免传统的宗教活动。他们似乎将其保持在最低限度。

“救世军的神学源自卫理公会，尽管在制度和实践上有所不同；例如，救世军不遵守圣礼。”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Salvation_Army

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EvenOdd 发表于 2025-04-22 12:05

回复 38楼 EvenOdd 的帖子

我认为救世军在世俗化方面比较接近上述目标。

因为实际上人们无法完全避免传统的宗教活动。他们似乎将其保持在最低限度。

“救世军的神学源自卫理公会，尽管在制度和实践上有所不同；例如，救世军不遵守圣礼。”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Salvation_Army

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Q

美国市长提议发芬太尼“清除”无家可归者：要多少给多少

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是的。我们应该都是受唯物主义教育长大的，但是慢慢的，我们发现这个世界不只是有物质

LizzyL 发表于 2025-04-22 13:35

"物基/本主義" >> "唯物主义"

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Q

唯物主義- 維基百科，自由的百科全書

维基百科

https://zh.wikipedia.org › 唯物主义

在古希臘，留基伯、德謨克利特和伊壁鳩魯等原子論者為後來的唯物主義起了開端。 盧克萊修（前99 - 前55）所著的拉丁文哲理長詩《物性論》闡述德謨克利特與伊壁鳩魯的原子論哲 ...

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kkkst 发表于 2025-04-22 18:06

不是大公会议统一的吗？

耶稣哲学是很好的，但是被神化了，可能有神，我也希望有神

+1

如今或许有太多真正信仰宗教的人，而真正信仰耶稣的人却太少了！

？

+1

如今或许有太多真正信仰宗教的人，而真正信仰耶稣的人却太少了！

？

EvenOdd 发表于 2025-04-23 01:55

据我所知，耶稣的许多教义都很难，哪怕只是短短几天的时间，也很难完成其中任何一个。（稍后会列出清单）——多么珍贵，多么高标准！

然而，宗教的要求往往非常有吸引力（永生、得救、罪得赦免、他人的死亡——耶稣是为了我的珍贵生命 - 而且无罪，等等），同时又很容易随时执行。——简单又经济！

这只是我的看法。

？

据我所知，耶稣的许多教义都很难，哪怕只是短短几天的时间，也很难完成其中任何一个。（稍后会列出清单）——多么珍贵，多么高标准！

然而，宗教的要求往往非常有吸引力（永生、得救、罪得赦免、他人的死亡——耶稣是为了我的珍贵生命 - 而且无罪，等等），同时又很容易随时执行。——简单又经济！

这只是我的看法。

？

EvenOdd 发表于 2025-04-23 02:09

耶稣怎么能说出这些难以理解的警句？

我花了几十年才能够理解某些耶稣警句，至今仍难以全面理解（我的智商太低了）。我从未理解过所有的警句教义。

看到这么多自称基督徒的人，我真是百思不得其解！或许，被称为学习/观察耶稣的人, 会更好？

只是我的看法。

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Q

The "hard sayings of Jesus" are challenging statements or teachings found in the Gospels that have been interpreted as difficult to understand or apply, often requiring a deeper understanding of the context and culture. These sayings can be seen as demanding a radical transformation of the listener''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''s worldview and lifestyle. 

Here are some examples of hard sayings of Jesus and their contexts: 

"Love your enemies" (Luke 6:27):

This is a challenging instruction, as it goes against the common human inclination to retaliate or seek revenge. It calls for a radical shift in mindset, moving beyond mere tolerance to a genuine love for those who harm us.

"Give to everyone who asks you" (Luke 6:30):

This can be interpreted as a call to generosity and compassion, but also to be aware of the potential for exploitation.

"You must deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me" (Luke 9:23):

This speaks to the importance of self-sacrifice and commitment to Jesus''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''s teachings, even at the cost of personal comfort or safety.

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26):

This is often misinterpreted as a literal call to hate family, but it is more about prioritizing one''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''s commitment to Jesus above all else.

"If you are not willing to give up everything to follow me, you cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:33):

This emphasizes the complete devotion required for following Jesus, including the renunciation of worldly possessions and priorities.

These are just a few examples, and many other sayings of Jesus can be considered "hard" depending on the individual''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''s perspective and understanding. Understanding the historical and cultural context in which these sayings were made can be helpful in interpreting them.

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Q

In ancient societies, "highest" professions were often related to power, knowledge, or spiritual roles. For example, in ancient Egypt, priests, architects, and scribes held positions of high social status. Military leaders and royal officials were also considered influential. In more agrarian societies, landowners and those with specialized crafts like blacksmithing or carpentry were also valued. 

Here's a more detailed look at some examples:

Ancient Egypt:

Priests: Played a crucial role in religious rituals and were often associated with the elite.

Scribes: Literate individuals who recorded important information, managed finances, and carried out administrative tasks.

Architects and Engineers: Designed and built monumental structures like pyramids and temples.

Military Leaders: Led the army and were responsible for defense. 

Ancient Greece:

• Philosophers: Thinkers and scholars who sought knowledge and wisdom.
• Orators: Public speakers who could sway audiences and influence political decisions.
• Craftsmen: Specialized artisans like sculptors, potters, and metalworkers were highly skilled.
• Landowners: Those who owned land and wealth held considerable power

Roman Empire:

• Politicians and Senators: Held positions of authority in the government.
• Soldiers and Military Commanders: Were respected for their strength and leadership.
• Doctors and Lawyers: Provided essential services and held a degree of social standing.
• Wealthy Landowners: Controlled large tracts of land and exerted considerable influence. 

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Q

Yes, Jesus taught about the importance of humility. He emphasized that those who humble themselves will be exalted, and those who exalt themselves will be humbled. This principle is found in various New Testament passages, including Luke 14:11 and Matthew 23:12. 

Elaboration:

Luke 14:11:

"For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." 

Matthew 23:12:

"Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." 

Biblical context:

In the Bible, humility is not about being meek or subservient, but about recognizing one''s own limitations and dependence on God. It involves a willingness to serve others and prioritize God''s will over personal desires. 

Jesus'' example:

Jesus himself demonstrated humility by submitting to the will of God, even in the face of suffering and death, says one account. 

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Q

The Bible advises against unnecessary arguing and conflict. Specifically, it encourages Christians to avoid "foolish debates" (Titus 3:9) and to not be "quarrelsome" (2 Timothy 2:23). The Bible also highlights the importance of speaking with "sweetness" (Proverbs 16:21) and avoiding words that cause division. 

Here''''s a more detailed look at the Bible''''s perspective:

Avoiding foolish debates:

The Pastoral Letters, like Titus 3:9, emphasize the unprofitableness of engaging in trivial or pointless arguments, according to Explore the Bible. 

Rejecting divisive people:

Titus 1:10 warns against those who cause division and strife, says Explore the Bible. 

Not quarreling about words:

2 Timothy 2:23-24 instructs against engaging in disputes about words, which do no good and can damage hearers, according to Open Bible Info. 

Speaking with kindness and gentleness:

Proverbs 16:21 encourages Christians to use "sweetness" in their speech, says Ligonier Ministries. 

Prioritizing unity and reconciliation:

The Bible emphasizes the importance of working towards peace and reconciliation rather than fostering conflict, says Ligonier Ministries. 

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Q

Throughout history, Christians have engaged in conflict with other Christians due to various factors, including doctrinal disagreements, political maneuvering, and the pursuit of power and influence. These conflicts have manifested in different forms, from schisms and theological debates to outright wars and persecution. 

Here's a more detailed look at some key reasons:

1. Doctrine and Theology:

Heretical beliefs:

Christians have often persecuted fellow believers for holding different interpretations of scripture or theological doctrines that were deemed heretical. 

Schisms and divisions:

Significant splits within Christianity, such as the Great Schism of 1054 (which led to the separation of the Eastern and Western Churches) and the Protestant Reformation, fueled conflicts between denominations. 

Christological controversies:

Debates over the nature of Jesus Christ, like those in the early church, led to persecution and violent conflicts. 

2. Political Power and Influence:

Emergence of Christian states:

As Christianity became dominant, especially in the Roman Empire, it often became a tool for political power plays, leading to conflicts between Christian groups and the persecution of those deemed heretical. 

Crusades:

The Crusades, initially intended to reclaim Jerusalem and secure pilgrimage routes, also had a devastating impact on Eastern Christian communities and sometimes turned into conflicts within Christian societies. 

Religious Wars:

Conflicts like the French Wars of Religion and the Thirty Years' War were driven by religious differences and political ambitions, often pitting Catholic and Protestant factions against each other. 

3. Justifications for War:

Spread of the faith:

Some Christian groups historically justified war to spread their faith and conquer territories perceived as "infidel" or heretical.

Defense of the faith:

Christians have also fought to defend their faith and protect Christian populations from persecution.

Holy wars:

The concept of "holy wars," where a religious authority, like the Pope, authorizes a war for religious reasons, has been used to justify conflict within and against non-Christian groups. 

4. Other Factors:

Sectarian violence:

As seen in Northern Ireland, conflicts can erupt from sectarian divisions within Christian denominations, often fueled by political and social factors. 

Persecution of Christians by other Christians:

Historically, Christians have also been persecuted by other Christians, often due to doctrinal differences or perceived threats to the established church. 

In essence, the history of Christian conflict is complex, encompassing theological disputes, political struggles, and the justifications for violence that have been used throughout Christian history.

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