if i can vote i will vote yes, marriage is between man and woman. I think the goverment should use a different term to define legal relationship between man and man or woman and woman.
8号提案大家投啥?
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well, 这么多人不是说这个同性**很正常，怎么又说很disgusting....这也太纠结了八。
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以下是引用dust07在2008-11-5 1:52:00的发言：
关键的问题就是很多人不认为卖淫嫖娼和乱伦与同性恋是一个category，like me
关键的问题就是很多人不认为卖淫嫖娼和乱伦与同性恋是一个category，like me
I am glad that it is passed, at least it sends out a message to people what is the right direction that we as human being should go for. I think 乱伦and同性恋 are in the same category, as they are against the biological rule that i have been believing in. As more and more ppl 乱伦 and 同性恋, human being will extinct eventually, although it is very unlikely to happen.
If you look at the summary of arguement against prop 8:
Equality under the law is a fundamental freedom. Regardless of how we feel about marriage, singling people (if a farther and his daughter are both single, and they want to get married, can you accept that? ) out to be treated differently is wrong (If two things are different, i don't see why we call them the same name). Prop. 8 won't affect our schools, but it will mean loving couples are treated differently under our Constitution and denied equal protection under the law (They can get the same protection as marriage can bring them, i am not against that, but not under the name of marriage).
[此贴子已经被作者于2008-11-5 2:10:45编辑过]
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以下是引用page394在2008-11-5 2:11:00的发言：
I like your blue words. Good argument!
But I don't think we can persuade anyone on this issue.
Really, why they insist on "marriage", they already accept the word "gay" and "les", why not use "gayrage" and "lesage", why would that hurt their feeling?
because they themselves also know that they are special group in the entire population and they want to be called NORMAL.
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以下是引用as_still_water在2008-11-5 2:18:00的发言：
他们是少数，而且他们没有得到应有的权利。
不是正常和非正常的区别。
that is why i support them to get whatever marriage can bring them but under a different definition. They should propose such a proposition and i will certainly vote for yes if i have the right to vote.
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以下是引用yuanyuanlu在2008-11-5 2:20:00的发言：
今天我跟我一个gay同事谈prop 8，说很多人vote yes是因为怕小孩子被教育坏了。他说，这些人对自己小孩的sexuality没有信心，因为在他看来，直的就是直的，弯的就是弯的。直的变弯的是getting out of closet，不可能弯的变直的。
妈呀，我自己都绕晕了。
我不这样认为，我觉得每个人多少都有点同性恋倾向，有人多有人少。这个时候社会影响就很重要了。什么时候gay les都变成潮流的玩意，不少年轻人就会尝试，这样的倾向对于我来说是可怕的。尤其是那些游离的中间派，基本上受到什么影响多就会变成什么。当然我的说法没有科学根据，只是个人觉得这样而已。
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以下是引用ranran_sweety在2008-11-5 2:26:00的发言：
I guess it is just sad to see how we put others down just because they are different from us.
Well, it has nothing to do with putting them up or down. It is just the fact. If they want ppl to accept that homosexual is normal, then they themselves need to accept that first. If they think they are normal, then why they care about how ppl call them.
I really don't agree on putting same-sex marriage in the same category with others.
I guess you mean DIFFERENT.
When you say it is the natural way to go as heterosexual couples, I think you against the well of our creator. There are so many evidences in nature that show us it is natural for people to be homosexual.
Well, you didn't even mention a single evidence. Let me ask you, what is the most natural behavior of human being or other creatures? To me, it is to creat offsprings, it is to evolve and survive!! That is the most natural charcteristics of GENE.
The only things that would affect our children is that we showed them what we can do to people that choose a different way to love than us. Because we are majority, we can manipulate rules to against them.
I don't expect you would change your mind on the decision, but I do wish people can graduatly open their mind toward this issue.
[此贴子已经被作者于2008-11-5 2:34:26编辑过]
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以下是引用page394在2008-11-5 2:29:00的发言：
Right, like in history, in most people's mind, marriage means a husband and a wife.
We can respect gayrage or lesage, and let them have all the rights in marriage-but no, they are not satisfied. They insist that a marriage should include two husbands or two wives. They insist the word groom and bride should be changed to Two parties instead. Now see who is invading who's life.
Like for descrimination, we don't like to be descriminated as asians. or Yellow people. or Colored people. So the government has all the laws to prohibit descrimination against asian, colored people. But we don't ask to be called white.
This is exactly the point.
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以下是引用page394在2008-11-5 2:42:00的发言：
you want to be called white?
don't you feel an asian, or a black, is as good as white?
they are called different names, so that you feel they are not treated equal?
big big support. I am always proud of being Asian, being Chinese, with black eyes, hairs and yellow skin. This is biological fact. It has nothing to do with discrimination. We have been discriminated not because of our skin, but becasue we lag behind in socioeconomic development. Someday if chinese is the most powerful, and the richest, White people may think they are discriminated.
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以下是引用as_still_water在2008-11-5 2:43:00的发言：
这个偷换概念了吧.
同性恋人群也没有要求被称作直人, 他们是要求他们的婚姻能够合法化.
不叫结婚就不能合法化了？借口吧，完全可以叫别的名字但是享有婚姻的权利。
如果说黄种人之间的婚姻法律不承认, 说你们反正该享受的都享受的到, 犯不着非要争取一个跟白种人婚姻一样的名头, 不然你们就叫黄昏好了, 但是不能算作法律认可的婚姻. 你说你要不要去争取?
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以下是引用Ebichu在2008-11-5 2:48:00的发言：
It's like inter-racial marriage did not get legalized until 1967, and people are perfectly fine with it now. Society will be more tolerant if the law encourages it. Just think how people back then looked at inter-racial marriage.
It's like inter-racial marriage did not get legalized until 1967, and people are perfectly fine with it now. Society will be more tolerant if the law encourages it. Just think how people back then looked at inter-racial marriage.
不同种族的婚姻在中国存在了不知道多少年。跟这个压根不是一回事好不好。
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以下是引用ranran_sweety在2008-11-5 2:50:00的发言：
Please MM. I thought you are more logical than this. I think your argument has been arround the issues rather than personal attack. As I stated earlier, don't twist my words and statements. I don't want to be called "white", but treated equally.
well, then rethink about using different words in stead of saying that is why we treatly differently from white. If you didn't mean that, then dont' say it.
[此贴子已经被作者于2008-11-5 2:52:58编辑过]
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以下是引用proserpina在2008-11-5 2:51:00的发言：
What is so different? 50 yrs ago, homosexal was considered immoral. Who is to say 50 yrs later prostitution wounldn't be included in moral category? I'm not saying prostitution is equal to gay issue, but only trying to point out moral or not can be vastly different depending on the time in the history.
What is so different? 50 yrs ago, homosexal was considered immoral. Who is to say 50 yrs later prostitution wounldn't be included in moral category? I'm not saying prostitution is equal to gay issue, but only trying to point out moral or not can be vastly different depending on the time in the history.
yes, i agree with that. You have the right to oppose prop 8. But i also have the right to support it. Just like the evolution of creature, it is the fight between different genes and the environment. Now we are on different sides. You may win at the end. Or i may win at the end. Our society has been more and more open doens't mean that we should go too far. Following your logic, in the future, we may accept marriage between father and daught, between grandma and grandson, whatever relationship you can think of. But not me, not now. And nobody knows what happen at the end. But i do think i can support what i believe in，and surely you can support yours.
[此贴子已经被作者于2008-11-5 2:57:54编辑过]
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page 394 mm said
But we don't ask to be called white.
I said This is exactly the point.
Then you said "This is exactly why we are not treated as white"
who lost her logic here. ![[em54]](https://emojis.huaren.us/static/emojis/v1/yoci/em54.gif)
[此贴子已经被作者于2008-11-5 3:06:55编辑过]
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以下是引用Ebichu在2008-11-5 3:02:00的发言：
All they want is to have their relationships to be legitimate
All they want is to have their relationships to be legitimate
one more time, i support that but not call it marriage. Or you can give normal marriage a different name. I am ok with that.
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以下是引用dust07在2008-11-5 3:16:00的发言：
mm所有说话的语气就是：我们，as majority, 可以给你们点甜头，但你们go too far, 否则我们就会pissed off。 that's exactly what "non-equal" means. they have the right they should have, but not for us, majority, to entitle them
mm所有说话的语气就是：我们，as majority, 可以给你们点甜头，但你们go too far, 否则我们就会pissed off。 that's exactly what "non-equal" means. they have the right they should have, but not for us, majority, to entitle them
Unfortunately, here in the current system, you need to have the majorty vote to make it leagal. This is how it works now. Just like, for ppl who vote for Maccain, they have to accept that Obama is the next president even they are pissed off.
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以下是引用Ebichu在2008-11-5 3:22:00的发言：
Well how about suppose you are the greatest artist in the world and people just say that "you are the greatest FEMALE artist in the world"?
Well how about suppose you are the greatest artist in the world and people just say that "you are the greatest FEMALE artist in the world"?
well, that sounds that same to me if you put MALE or YOUNG beofre artist.
The greatest FEMAE artist != The great MALE artist != The great young artist !=The greatest artiest. You simply change the representiveness of that term by using any adjective before "artist". But if one is the greatest artist, it doesn't matter whether he is male, female, young or old, asian or european.
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以下是引用dust07在2008-11-5 3:25:00的发言：
这是事实，现状。
我的立场就是，咱是majority没错，但是别somehow站在居高临下的立场， be respectful and be humble. as majority, we are already privileged, have compassion to those who don't.
这是事实，现状。
我的立场就是，咱是majority没错，但是别somehow站在居高临下的立场， be respectful and be humble. as majority, we are already privileged, have compassion to those who don't.
没有人要居高临下，如果你硬要这样想，是因为你suppose他们是把自己放在下面的位置。Be respectful and be humble mean that you don't force other to follow the way you behavior. I don't force them to behavior the way i am, i just hope that they don't force me to accept something i don't believe in. I surely support them to have all the leagal right that marriaged couple can get, but not under the same name. as in my belief, marriage is between man and woman and between husband and wife, not between party A and party B.
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以下是引用page394在2008-11-5 3:41:00的发言：
actually party a and b are marginally acceptable with me-as I said, I think it's personal standard. And I don't really care.
The prince-prince story totally turned me off.
And what the no supporters say about school? we are not required to teach ..........., They can't even say clearly and straightfoward: We will not teach.
what pissed me off most is that part A and party B might be any people in the future as ppl might say ** years ago gays can not get married, but now we allow that, now we should allow ppl to marry their son, daughter .... Please be open minded, our society is changing...
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灌了这么多水，完成这个月的任务了。跟我意见不同的mm多有得罪，求同存异。good night.
