看到版主搞活动，我来助兴一下。刚才有个贴子里提到半推半就，引申出对东西方文化的差异。

不知道大家对Gian Lorenzo Bernini熟不熟。我来发两个照片，这个是他的一个著名作品，请大家从伊甸园的角度解读一下？

一个是绑架，一个是单恋，怎么看都和半推半就搭不上。。。

这个需要zoom in. 在电脑上可以试试 https://arthistoryproject.com/artists/gian-lorenzo-bernini/ecstasy-of-saint-teresa/

一个是绑架，一个是单恋，怎么看都和半推半就搭不上。。。

tiantianfadai 发表于 2021-12-28 19:51

故事不是那么简单的嘛。

第一个故事里，男方孔武有力肌肉发达，作为冥王有权有势。。。如果光从性福的角度来说，至少是一夜五次郎吧。不比王力宏强多了？而且后来Prosperpina也是从了他成为了压寨夫人么。而且她还曾经（打算）帮助Orpheus把Eurydice从冥间带回人间。

我看希腊神话从来都记不住。搬板凳看大家讨论！我听课🤣

别的不说，这个雕刻的水平真是太叹为观止了。大理石的居然表现出来肌肉和皮肤的张力。

我就去过一次意大利，当时做功课不熟，而且时间太赶，跑了好几个城市。下次一定再去罗马好好看看。

一个是强奸，一个真的是单恋。希腊神话里的性爱都是强有力的，因为都是神不是人，所以没什么可比性，也不见什么半推半就。

神话故事都是可以解读的么。

The Rape of Prosperpina一般理解为绑架，抢夺。可能是因为强奸以后Pluto还打算长期占有，而且把她当作“大奶”。这个故事其实跌宕起伏，确实如你所言，这个不能用现代人的道德观念来解读。

古代神话里强奸诱奸乱伦的故事太多了，但是这是不是说明当时人类文明还不够发达，作为生物人本身有一些情节/冲动。算了这个咱们不要歪楼。

呼唤哪位妙笔生花的朋友写一写Pluto和Prosperpina不得不说的故事吧。我记得以前ChristinaW写过一些，挺好看的啊。

咱们要求欣赏性强，真实性无所谓。本来就是神话故事，也有好多个版本的。

好吧，第一个和第二个大家不愿意谈。看看第三个怎么样？这个看起来像不像Teresa达到性高潮的样子？

Ecstasy of Saint Teresa

修女说是嫁给了上帝，好奇她们是如何高潮的？

不像性高潮的样子， 倒像是dozed off口水快流出来时候的样子

不像性高潮的样子， 倒像是dozed off口水快流出来时候的样子

weee21 发表于 2021-12-29 08:32

也有点像哈。

那这个Ecstacy狂喜如何解读呢

哈哈哈确实有那个意思

也有点像哈。

那这个Ecstacy狂喜如何解读呢

changheruhailiu 发表于 2021-12-29 09:51

热恋（上帝）带来的精神极乐吧， 跟吸药high估计差不多

要区分性 fantasy vs facts 。。。 统计上不少女生有被强的 sexual fantasy（问卷调查统计，不一定准确），完全不等于愿意被强 。。。 好像没有对男生的此类 sexual fantasy 的统计，可能因为 consensual 的法律和社会伦理的困难，不过合理猜测也是类似。

神话故事，我觉得是 sexual fantasy 的映射。

淫者见淫呵呵. 这可是圣女啊. 说的是遇见天使时,天使的长矛和她接触感受到的痛苦和甜蜜. 据圣女本人的描述, 的确是见到神的狂喜. Bernini 这样塑造圣女也是有争议的, 但很少有人真赤裸裸地说这是性高潮的样子, 毕竟是说圣女啊.

回复 11楼changheruhailiu的帖子

淫者见淫呵呵. 这可是圣女啊. 说的是遇见天使时,天使的长矛和她接触感受到的痛苦和甜蜜. 据圣女本人的描述, 的确是见到神的狂喜. Bernini 这样塑造圣女也是有争议的, 但很少有人真赤裸裸地说这是性高潮的样子, 毕竟是说圣女啊.

rfiw 发表于 2021-12-29 15:25

大英百科全书说

In representing Teresa’s vision, during which an angel pierced her heart with a fiery arrow of divine love, Bernini followed Teresa’s own description of the event.

16世纪，出身贫困家庭，活了67岁。。。而且这个雕塑是根据她自述创作的。

按照潮水哥的理论，假设她没有说谎，她应该在那一刻体验了大量的多巴胺的冲击。她是主张艰苦朴素的，当年也没有合成毒品之类，仅仅靠冥想就进入这个状态真的不容易。是不是终于掌握了自慰诀窍？后来她还遇到了Juan de Yepes, 年轻英俊的牧师。。。

从事迹来看，没有荷尔蒙调节激素作用她做不到这些啊。

对于Teresa的介绍是这样的：

St. Teresa of Ávila, also called Saint Teresa of Jesus, original name Teresa de Cepeda y Ahumada, (born March 28, 1515, Ávila, Spain—died October 4, 1582, Alba de Tormes; canonized 1622; feast day October 15), Spanish nun, one of the great mystics and religious women of the Roman Catholic Church, and author of spiritual classics. She was the originator of the Carmelite Reform, which restored and emphasized the austerity and contemplative character of primitive Carmelite life. St. Teresa was elevated to doctor of the church in 1970 by Pope Paul VI, the first woman to be so honoured.

Her mother died in 1529, and, despite her father’s opposition, Teresa entered, probably in 1535, the Carmelite Convent of the Incarnation at Ávila, Spain. Within two years her health collapsed, and she was an invalid for three years, during which time she developed a love for mental prayer. After her recovery, however, she stopped praying. She continued for 15 years in a state divided between a worldly and a divine spirit, until, in 1555, she underwent a religious awakening.

In 1558 Teresa began to consider the restoration of Carmelite life to its original observance of austerity, which had relaxed in the 14th and 15th centuries. Her reform required utter withdrawal so that the nuns could meditate on divine law and, through a prayerful life of penance, exercise what she termed “our vocation of reparation” for the sins of humankind. In 1562, with Pope Pius IV’s authorization, she opened the first convent (St. Joseph’s) of the Carmelite Reform. A storm of hostility came from municipal and religious personages, especially because the convent existed without endowment, but she staunchly insisted on poverty and subsistence only through public alms.

John Baptist Rossi, the Carmelite prior general from Rome, went to Ávila in 1567 and approved the reform, directing Teresa to found more convents and to establish monasteries. In the same year, while at Medina del Campo, Spain, she met a young Carmelite priest, Juan de Yepes (later St. John of the Cross, the poet and mystic), who she realized could initiate the Carmelite Reform for men. A year later Juan opened the first monastery of the Primitive Rule at Duruelo, Spain.

Despite frail health and great difficulties, Teresa spent the rest of her life establishing and nurturing 16 more convents throughout Spain. In 1575, while she was at the Sevilla (Seville) convent, a jurisdictional dispute erupted between the friars of the restored Primitive Rule, known as the Discalced (or “Unshod”) Carmelites, and the observants of the Mitigated Rule, the Calced (or “Shod”) Carmelites. Although she had foreseen the trouble and endeavoured to prevent it, her attempts failed. The Carmelite general, to whom she had been misrepresented, ordered her to retire to a convent in Castile and to cease founding additional convents; Juan was subsequently imprisoned at Toledo in 1577.

In 1579, largely through the efforts of King Philip II of Spain, who knew and admired Teresa, a solution was effected whereby the Carmelites of the Primitive Rule were given independent jurisdiction, confirmed in 1580 by a rescript of Pope Gregory XIII. Teresa, broken in health, was then directed to resume the reform. In journeys that covered hundreds of miles, she made exhausting missions and was fatally stricken en route to Ávila from Burgos, Spain.

Teresa’s ascetic doctrine has been accepted as the classical exposition of the contemplative life, and her spiritual writings are among the most widely read. Her Life of the Mother Teresa of Jesus (1611) is autobiographical; the Book of the Foundations (1610) describes the establishment of her convents. Her recognized written masterpieces on the progress of the Christian soul toward God through prayer and contemplation are The Way of Perfection (1583), The Interior Castle (1588), Spiritual Relations, Exclamations of the Soul to God (1588), and Conceptions on the Love of God. Of her poems, 31 are extant; of her letters, 458 are extant.

不过潮水哥也说过，人最大的性器官是大脑。

据说当年希特勒在德国特别有魅力，很多德国女人听他演讲就能达到高潮。这个太匪夷所思了吧！

在这里的朋友们有去听某个歌星的音乐会达到高潮的吗?

不过潮水哥也说过，人最大的性器官是大脑。

据说当年希特勒在德国特别有魅力，很多德国女人听他演讲就能达到高潮。这个太匪夷所思了吧！

在这里的朋友们有去听某个歌星的音乐会达到高潮的吗?

changheruhailiu 发表于 2021-12-29 16:26

做春梦高潮不就是最好的证明么

做春梦高潮不就是最好的证明么

weee21 发表于 2021-12-29 17:13

哦，这个也有道理哦。不过睡梦中大脑部分区域应该受了压制。呼唤生物专家潮水哥给出生物学和心理学的解释

看不懂，但也觉得这些雕塑好美