Anxious Morning on Wall Street as Lehman Makes Chapter 11 Filing,
Merrill Is Sold, AIG Seeks Cash
让我们记住今天Wall Street Journal这个历史性的标题吧~
大概有3-4万人要失业了，不得了……
昨天晚上去Lehman照了几张照片，还是闪亮的灯光，算是纪念吧。
美国已经光速步入共产主义
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以下是引用boobii在2008-9-15 8:47:00的发言：
What will happen next to the shareholders? Wondering...
bond holders will recover at approximately 60 cents on the dollar so common share holders will be $0.What will happen next to the shareholders? Wondering...
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以下是引用seven3在2008-9-14 19:49:00的发言：
FED won't waste one more penny of taxpayer's money on these banks except F2. If they bail out everyone, they set up a very bad example for wall street. Next time the bubble would be even bigger... anyway, lessons learned. It seems that I should delay my homeownership.
FED won't waste one more penny of taxpayer's money on these banks except F2. If they bail out everyone, they set up a very bad example for wall street. Next time the bubble would be even bigger... anyway, lessons learned. It seems that I should delay my homeownership.
FED's money is not tax payer's money
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I was quiet shocked to the news this morning. the recession is coming
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以下是引用Summer_Blue在2008-9-15 9:29:00的发言：
It is because it's taxpayer's money to pay the debt.FED's money is not tax payer's money
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以下是引用Caffeine在2008-9-15 7:45:00的发言：
yes. originally they were talking about liquidation so I was quite confused. it turned out to be Chap 11.
I'm not a lawyer but I heard that there are different rules when it comes to broker/dealers' bankruptcies. wonder what difference that makes.
yes. originally they were talking about liquidation so I was quite confused. it turned out to be Chap 11.
I'm not a lawyer but I heard that there are different rules when it comes to broker/dealers' bankruptcies. wonder what difference that makes.
b/d goes for Chap 7, which hand the unit to a trustee, who sell the assets and return all the proceeds to customers.
Others go for orderly liquidation and repay the creditors for as much as possible.
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以下是引用boobii在2008-9-15 8:47:00的发言：
What will happen next to the shareholders? Wondering...
What will happen next to the shareholders? Wondering...
nothing will happen except a memeorable day and a $0 stock.
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本来想说要是fed介入，肯定为了避免moral hazard,每股也就卖个2块钱。这下倒好，落井下石撒手不管了。
希望他们还能卖出去neuberger,然后shareholders还能有点钱省下。maybe just my wishful thinking....
go back to work now. what a day.sigh.
希望他们还能卖出去neuberger,然后shareholders还能有点钱省下。maybe just my wishful thinking....
go back to work now. what a day.sigh.
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以下是引用greenflower在2008-9-14 22:12:00的发言：
BOA 等到这一轮危机过后是不是要成超级大牛了?
BOA 等到这一轮危机过后是不是要成超级大牛了?
Yeah, Ken Lewis now is the king of Wall Street.
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那么boa里面工作的人会不会收的波动比较小阿![[em87]](https://emojis.huaren.us/static/emojis/v1/yoci/em87.gif)
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以下是引用greenflower在2008-9-15 12:32:00的发言：
那么boa里面工作的人会不会收的波动比较小阿
那么boa里面工作的人会不会收的波动比较小阿
BOA took CFC, MER, and some other smaller ones, so i expect there will be some layoffs within its own.
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以下是引用Caffeine在2008-9-15 7:45:00的发言：
yes. originally they were talking about liquidation so I was quite confused. it turned out to be Chap 11.
I'm not a lawyer but I heard that there are different rules when it comes to broker/dealers' bankruptcies. wonder what difference that makes.
我看到的是LEh Holding filed a petition for Ch 11, 但是IB part filed for ch 7. yes. originally they were talking about liquidation so I was quite confused. it turned out to be Chap 11.
I'm not a lawyer but I heard that there are different rules when it comes to broker/dealers' bankruptcies. wonder what difference that makes.
据我有限的知识，CH11和CH 7的区别很大，ch 7是liquidation, 债务是“all or nothing“的游戏。有non-dischargeable的债务，譬如back to 3 years的taxes. File了ch 7的公司最后基本就是“死掉了”为结局。
ch 11是restructure bankruptcy, 债务会spread out，会cut back。LEH会先file 一个repayment plan, 然后judg审核。如果同意了这个plan，公司会照常运营,还可以继续借债以确保ongoing operation(这个是和ch 7最大的区别，ch 7没什么继续运营一说）。ch 11的债务， follow the absolute priority rule (shareholder 啥都拿不到也是这个原因，因为debtholder先有权力拿回自己的债；然后是preferred shareholders,最后才是common shareholders。debtholder里面又分first lien, second lien，有无投票权等，反正异常复杂。）
如果ch 11 失败了，就go for ch 7. 历史上80％的ch 11都失败了。成功的只有20％， kmart就是一个成功的例子。但愿leh会成功；但是在这种经济形式下，个人觉得恐怕是凶多吉少。
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以下是引用zijun在2008-9-15 14:38:00的发言：
我看到的是LEh Holding filed a petition for Ch 11, 但是IB part filed for ch 7.
据我有限的知识，CH11和CH 7的区别很大，ch 7是liquidation, 债务是“all or nothing“的游戏。有non-dischargeable的债务，譬如back to 3 years的taxes. File了ch 7的公司最后基本就是“死掉了”为结局。
ch 11是restructure bankruptcy, 债务会spread out，会cut back。LEH会先file 一个repayment plan, 然后judg审核。如果同意了这个plan，公司会照常运营,还可以继续借债以确保ongoing operation(这个是和ch 7最大的区别，ch 7没什么继续运营一说）。ch 11的债务， follow the absolute priority rule (shareholder 啥都拿不到也是这个原因，因为debtholder先有权力拿回自己的债；然后是preferred shareholders,最后才是common shareholders。debtholder里面又分first lien, second lien，有无投票权等，反正异常复杂。）
如果ch 11 失败了，就go for ch 7. 历史上80％的ch 11都失败了。成功的只有20％， kmart就是一个成功的例子。但愿leh会成功；但是在这种经济形式下，个人觉得恐怕是凶多吉少。
我看到的是LEh Holding filed a petition for Ch 11, 但是IB part filed for ch 7.
据我有限的知识，CH11和CH 7的区别很大，ch 7是liquidation, 债务是“all or nothing“的游戏。有non-dischargeable的债务，譬如back to 3 years的taxes. File了ch 7的公司最后基本就是“死掉了”为结局。
ch 11是restructure bankruptcy, 债务会spread out，会cut back。LEH会先file 一个repayment plan, 然后judg审核。如果同意了这个plan，公司会照常运营,还可以继续借债以确保ongoing operation(这个是和ch 7最大的区别，ch 7没什么继续运营一说）。ch 11的债务， follow the absolute priority rule (shareholder 啥都拿不到也是这个原因，因为debtholder先有权力拿回自己的债；然后是preferred shareholders,最后才是common shareholders。debtholder里面又分first lien, second lien，有无投票权等，反正异常复杂。）
如果ch 11 失败了，就go for ch 7. 历史上80％的ch 11都失败了。成功的只有20％， kmart就是一个成功的例子。但愿leh会成功；但是在这种经济形式下，个人觉得恐怕是凶多吉少。
MM的法律功底真好
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以下是引用greenflower在2008-9-15 12:32:00的发言：
那么boa里面工作的人会不会收的波动比较小阿
那么boa里面工作的人会不会收的波动比较小阿
wall street接下来肯定要大手笔lay off，今年这些wall street上的这些bank的收入降了一半多，cost才降了10%。这光景，不layoff哪来钱补缺口？boa肯定也逃不掉，光消化cfc,mer两家就够他受一阵的了。
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以下是引用Summer_Blue在2008-9-15 14:41:00的发言：
mm误会了，我不是学法律的，根本谈不上功底：）MM的法律功底真好
我是学商的，不过上过商业法的课。不过这些基本知识和怎么restrucutre，怎么repay，在一些学校的corporate finance课里也会重点讲到。我曾经上过一门课，1／3个学期都在做类似的case,所以稍微了解一些。
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以下是引用zijun在2008-9-15 14:38:00的发言：
我看到的是LEh Holding filed a petition for Ch 11, 但是IB part filed for ch 7.
据我有限的知识，CH11和CH 7的区别很大，ch 7是liquidation, 债务是“all or nothing“的游戏。有non-dischargeable的债务，譬如back to 3 years的taxes. File了ch 7的公司最后基本就是“死掉了”为结局。
ch 11是restructure bankruptcy, 债务会spread out，会cut back。LEH会先file 一个repayment plan, 然后judg审核。如果同意了这个plan，公司会照常运营,还可以继续借债以确保ongoing operation(这个是和ch 7最大的区别，ch 7没什么继续运营一说）。ch 11的债务， follow the absolute priority rule (shareholder 啥都拿不到也是这个原因，因为debtholder先有权力拿回自己的债；然后是preferred shareholders,最后才是common shareholders。debtholder里面又分first lien, second lien，有无投票权等，反正异常复杂。）
如果ch 11 失败了，就go for ch 7. 历史上80％的ch 11都失败了。成功的只有20％， kmart就是一个成功的例子。但愿leh会成功；但是在这种经济形式下，个人觉得恐怕是凶多吉少。
我看到的是LEh Holding filed a petition for Ch 11, 但是IB part filed for ch 7.
据我有限的知识，CH11和CH 7的区别很大，ch 7是liquidation, 债务是“all or nothing“的游戏。有non-dischargeable的债务，譬如back to 3 years的taxes. File了ch 7的公司最后基本就是“死掉了”为结局。
ch 11是restructure bankruptcy, 债务会spread out，会cut back。LEH会先file 一个repayment plan, 然后judg审核。如果同意了这个plan，公司会照常运营,还可以继续借债以确保ongoing operation(这个是和ch 7最大的区别，ch 7没什么继续运营一说）。ch 11的债务， follow the absolute priority rule (shareholder 啥都拿不到也是这个原因，因为debtholder先有权力拿回自己的债；然后是preferred shareholders,最后才是common shareholders。debtholder里面又分first lien, second lien，有无投票权等，反正异常复杂。）
如果ch 11 失败了，就go for ch 7. 历史上80％的ch 11都失败了。成功的只有20％， kmart就是一个成功的例子。但愿leh会成功；但是在这种经济形式下，个人觉得恐怕是凶多吉少。
it's the brokerage unit which goes for Chapter.7. The asset here essentially belongs to the customers, creditors do not have/shoud not have any claims on that. also, the brokerage unit is still operating for now, did I make this wrong?
you are right on Chapter 11, though Neuberger Berman is not included in the filing, which may continue to operate.
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金融业其实本身就是吸血行业啊,我不是诋毁金融业的童鞋啊,![[em58]](https://emojis.huaren.us/static/emojis/v1/yoci/em58.gif)
,难道他们挣那么多钱应该吗?搞实业的辛辛苦苦搞出来的东西都赚不了钱的.大家都去搞金融,谁来搞实业,没有实业的国家能繁荣下去吗?
,难道他们挣那么多钱应该吗?搞实业的辛辛苦苦搞出来的东西都赚不了钱的.大家都去搞金融,谁来搞实业,没有实业的国家能繁荣下去吗?
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以下是引用iilovecat在2008-9-15 15:03:00的发言：
金融业其实本身就是吸血行业啊,我不是诋毁金融业的童鞋啊,
,难道他们挣那么多钱应该吗?搞实业的辛辛苦苦搞出来的东西都赚不了钱的.大家都去搞金融,谁来搞实业,没有实业的国家能繁荣下去吗?
金融业其实本身就是吸血行业啊,我不是诋毁金融业的童鞋啊,
,难道他们挣那么多钱应该吗?搞实业的辛辛苦苦搞出来的东西都赚不了钱的.大家都去搞金融,谁来搞实业,没有实业的国家能繁荣下去吗? naive, sometimes too simple.
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以下是引用iilovecat在2008-9-15 15:03:00的发言：
金融业其实本身就是吸血行业啊,我不是诋毁金融业的童鞋啊,,难道他们挣那么多钱应该吗?搞实业的辛辛苦苦搞出来的东西都赚不了钱的.大家都去搞金融,谁来搞实业,没有实业的国家能繁荣下去吗?
金融业其实本身就是吸血行业啊,我不是诋毁金融业的童鞋啊,
,难道他们挣那么多钱应该吗?搞实业的辛辛苦苦搞出来的东西都赚不了钱的.大家都去搞金融,谁来搞实业,没有实业的国家能繁荣下去吗? 新加坡、香港啊，木有实业，都是靠金融服务业撑着。
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以下是引用lanoiry在2008-9-15 14:51:00的发言：
is it the SIPC rule?
it's the brokerage unit which goes for Chapter.7. The asset here essentially belongs to the customers, creditors do not have/shoud not have any claims on that. also, the brokerage unit is still operating for now, did I make this wrong?
you are right on Chapter 11, though Neuberger Berman is not included in the filing, which may continue to operate.
all subsidiaries are business as usual today because only the holding company filed for chap 11. They only filed for 3 motions though including one to extend the time.
Their trading desks are around.just not trading much.
